Anniversary of the 86 Machingun ban.

[BWE Firearms]

I can't beleive no one has posted anything about today being the anniversary of the 86 machinegun ban. What would things be like if it had never passed. What kind of full autos would have been designed? Look what has happened in the suppressor market because of the civilian market.

[ExecDirector]

I'm of mixed emotions on this issue. That crook, Rangel, shoved it down our throats knowing how difficult it would be to undo the damage. And he was right. I prefer not to honor such disgrace.

[ExecDirector]

It's not going to be so much as a lobbyist as it would be a combination of lobbyist and lawyer(s). It would need to be an offensive mounted in a manner similar to Heller and then combined with convincing a Congress that is mostly clueless that machine guns are even legal! I would not even contemplate starting this mess without $6 million(ish) in the bank.

[BWE Firearms]

$6 million is not very much money to pay for layers and buy the right polititions and judges.

[ExecDirector]

I do appreciate the sentiment. With that said, we have trouble getting folks to just renew their membership!

[samot]

I do appreciate the sentiment. With that said, we have trouble getting folks to just renew their membership!

I resemble that remark

[graylandertagger]

If I ever come across that sum of money in my lifetime I will donate it all towards that end. Maybe something can be started on this board? I will donate $ every year.

Just finished reading a book unrelated to MG's however very relevant in my opinion to the present state of America and the West Civilization The West and the Rest by Niall Ferguson.

We could try to contact the various machinegun companies to fund such a lawsuit and with proper planning, could succeed in removing the ban.

There's also facebook page designed directly for removing the Hughes Amendment:https://www.facebook.com/RepealHughes

[ExecDirector]

Please articulate why it would be in the interests of machine gun manufacturers to do this and how they would realize a profit from such activity. And I am going to exclude any manufacturers based in Europe since the EU pretty much bans civilian ownership of these weapons and force them to play along (eg.: HK, etc.). And exactly how much of a war chest has the Facebook page generated?

Again, lot's of individuals would like to see Hughes repealed or overturned. Those same individuals generally look to others to fund the process.

[sillycon]

And, unfortunately, there are also a LOT of folks who probably wouldn't want to see Hughes overturned because it would crash the MG market, costing some folks hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[ExecDirector]

In all honesty, I think that sentiment is really misplaced. The truly collectible guns will always be so. A "new" Tommy gun will always be far less valuable than a real one. A real 1917 Browning more valuable than a new production replica. The folks with the serious jack invested in their guns have it in stuff that really is valuable. Whether or not Hughes exists is almost a non sequitur for them.

Will there be items that lose value? Sure. HK sears and other similar conversion devices are likely to take the biggest hit. But guess what? Real collectors have not based their collections on these.

The market for collectibles will not crash. The broad market of "commodity" type stuff will take an upfront hit, but will stabilize with the dramatic increase in overall market swell. There are about 186,000 transferable MG's right now. Taking the cap off that to make new guns available will swell the market. But no matter what you will not be able to make more of the *original* guns that collectors will pay top dollar for. I'll buy a replica to shoot. I'll buy the real thing as an investment. And that is what I have done *with* the Hughes crap in place. I don't own any transferable weapon that doesn't already have intrinsic value.

[sillycon]

Jeff, I'm with you 100%, which is why my comment wasn't really aimed at the collector market. I'm thinking primarily about dealers with shelf stock of "shooter grade" transferables -- i.e. the guys with a handful of converted AR-15's, a few RDIAS, an HK trigger pack or two, and perhaps a couple tube guns or an AK. Those are the guys that are going to REALLY get shafted were Hughes overturned. Not to mention that the moment there's any real truth to Hughes being overturned I expect you'll see the "shooter" market slow, and the closer it gets to passing the "worse" things will get. Who wants to be the guy that paid $20k for a DIAS the day before they are legalized and can be had for $19.95?

Keeping in mind that a full 10+% of the transferable market is JUST MAC-type guns, when you throw in AR-15 conversions, DIAS, SP86 conversions, trigger packs, sears, tubes, bolts, etc. it gets hard for me to imagine that the bulk of the registry would be collector-grade guns, but (sadly) without being able to actually see what's on the books, we're limited to educated guesses and gut feelings.

[ExecDirector]

The overturning of Hughes will not come as a surprise to anyone when/if it starts rolling. If it does, then they will have their heads buried in the sand and deserve evolution. Ultimately, reversing Hughes will actually enlarge the market and mean MORE net dollars for machine gun dealers. That also means they have to actually apply sound principles of finance to their inventory in the run up so as to mitigate risk and exposure. I doubt that anyone here wants to here my thoughts on the application of arbitrage as a risk management tool...

[BWE Firearms]

I don't think Huges will ever be overturned but if it is I have a standing order for 1000 Uzi receiver shells to be delivered the day it is overturned. I probably already have half of those sold. I do know a number of people who don't want it to be overturned because everything they have will be in production the next day, HK, Uzi, M16, MAC. Most of the customers I have talked to want it overturned because even though they will loose a lot of money they will be able to buy a lot more toys for a lot less money. I have talked to a number of dealers that want it overturned because what they loose in current inventory they are sure they will make up volume.

[ExecDirector]

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

[graylandertagger]

I don't think Huges will ever be overturned


It'll get removed, but I will admit it won't be easy, nor will it be anytime soon. From what i've researched I think the best method would be to start at a state level to make select numbers of state exempt from federal law before going for repealing the Hughes Amendment altogether.