Longer wait times at the NFA Branch?

[jason8844]

Hello Everyone,
I am new to the forum and fairly new to the world of NFA. I bought my first can last year. When I bought it, my class III dealer said the wait times were very long and it took 6 months to get my paperwork back. Now that I have the bug for NFA weapons, I have paperwork in for 2 more silencers and an SBR. The Form 1 and 4s are both being filed as an individual. I watch www.nfatracker.com every day and the wait times seem to have expanded to 8 months now! When I check the internet for any conversations about this I can not find any. Are these wait times a sign of a new "normal" or just a backlog due to all the anti-gun stuff that happened this year? Will we ever see a 4 month wait time again?

I do want to also say that I have called the NFA Branch and they have always been polite and professional. They just tell me my paperwork is still pending and that is all they can do. Once the lady on the phone told me that the new goal time to process applications is 9 months. I have called my Senators and member of Congress to express my concerns. I live in Texas and I am blessed to have very pro-2nd amendment representatives.

I would enjoy hearing anyone's insight into what the current state of the wait times are. Thanks in advance for anyone responding!

[jason8844]

9 months is the new normal. Its better to forget it exists and enjoy other aspects of your life. Hopefully the new eforms will help in the near future especially if and when payment can be made electronically. Your wife/girlfriend can give you a child in the time it takes to get your approved stamp back. No joke.

I sure hope 9 months is not the new normal. That is unreasonable. People can die, dealers can go out of business, laws can change, and people can move in those long time frames. 4 months is reasonable, but when you start getting close to a year, that is simply the government interfering with LEGAL commerce and people trying to comply with the law and pay taxes. I am surprised more anti-gunners do not like the NFA more. They get everything they want.... gun registration and more taxes being paid.

[darrylta]

I received a Colt 1921 TMG about a month ago. My total waiting time was 7 months , 2 1/2 months with the Maryland State Police, 2 weeks at the ATF Atlanta Bank and 4 months after the check had cleared or "the pending date"
Most time frames are quoted after "pending"

I agree with titleII,,,forget about it,, it will be a nice surprise when it does happen, like found money:-)
-Darryl

[ExecDirector]

As more and more folks get the NFA bug, the sheer volume of applications at NFA Branch increases exponentially. Although they really have made tremendous strides in efficiencies and the number of forms they process, the mountain keeps growing. It's 9 months, on average for a Form 1 and slightly less for a Form 4. That number will continue to rise and I fully expect times to hit a year in short order. ATF got permission to hire new examiners, but they didn't hire enough to account for attrition and the number is basically static. We *do* have contractors acting as research assistants and that has helped, but there was a steep and painful learning curve.

If a real solution is to be found, it is going to be via hammering Congress, especially the House, to appropriate more funds and authorize the hiring of more DOJ employees for these positions. Listen to me when I tell you that this is just like the foothills of the Himalayas. This mountain may seem big, but it is going to be dwarfed when/if the CLEO signature requirement goes away.

[jason8844]

If a real solution is to be found, it is going to be via hammering Congress, especially the House, to appropriate more funds and authorize the hiring of more DOJ employees for these positions. Listen to me when I tell you that this is just like the foothills of the Himalayas. This mountain may seem big, but it is going to be dwarfed when/if the CLEO signature requirement goes away.

Well, I have been doing my best. My Representative sits on one of the big appropriations committees. She is always emailing us and asked what we suggest she should take a look at. I have called and emailed. I am even thinking about dropping by her local office. Maybe a face to face meeting with a staffer will help push the point even more. At least they know we in the NFA community are engaged and care about solving this problem.

[jason8844]

As with most aspects of life as I age I find that the key is communication in getting your needs met. If you move or anything changes while you are waiting on a pending transfer keep the NFA Branch abreast of new developments in your life with email/phone calls. They will work with you. They must know you have a problem though in the first place in order for them to be of help to you. I have moved while applications were pending and I had to request they send the documents back to me for a new signature with the new address on it. You now part of a select few of Americans who do the right thing even when no one else is watching. Your in Texas don't worry my friend the Legislature here only meets every two years and its doubtful more restrictive gun laws will pass and be signed into law by the Governor. Look up the legal definition of ex post facto laws. Specifically check out Article I, Section 10, Clause 1, of the U.S. Constitution. Everything is going to be alright.

Thanks for your words of encouragement! I always comply with the law so all I can do is wait. I joke with my friends all the time that we found the ONLY department in the Federal government this administration wants to downsize and cut. While every other department is growing and has legions of bureaucrats, the NFA branch is running on a skeleton crew and is over worked.

As for the Ex Post Facto laws, take a look at California. They are getting ready to pass a bill that would force all citizens in possession of legally owned grandfathered magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds to dispose of them. We live in a post-Constitutional republic and is unmoored from the founding documents. Politicians will spend every ounce of political capital on defending abortions and illegal immigration as "rights", although they are not written in the Constitution, but turn themselves into a pretzel trying to change the meaning of actual enumerated rights, like the 2nd amendment.

[darrylta]

It all boils down to our Liar and Chief, Hussein Osama.
Jason, your fortunate you live in Texas, it could be much worse.
Darryl

[jason8844]

It all boils down to our Liar and Chief, Hussein Osama.
Jason, your fortunate you live in Texas, it could be much worse.
Darryl

I agree it could be worse. I am only 33 y/o so I expect things to only go down hill from here.

However, in BHO's defense, I understand wait time were getting worse for a decade anyways. This administration only took an already slow, redundant and understaffed department and made it painfully slower.

The way I figure it, the system has been fundamentally broke since 1934. =)

[jason8844]

Here was todays call to the NFA Branch...

Me: Hello, I would like to check the status of an application I sent in February.

NFA : Your application went pending on May 23rd and we expect to get it back out to you 10 months from the pending date.

-----------------

This system is broke. It looks like I will be waiting over 1 year from when I bought the suppressor until I get my stamp. This is so frustrating.

[ExecDirector]

And I hate to break it to you... but that 10 months is an *average*...

[RenegadeConservative]

If the government shuts down in a few days, how much longer will our pending transfers be delayed?

10 months is unacceptable. Absolute bulldookie.

[jason8844]

Good question. I doubt we would be this lucky, but I heard on the NRA-ILA that the NICS system will still be up if the government shuts down. I wonder if the NFA branch is same.

As for 10 months, that is from the date it goes pending. It took them 2 months from the check being cashed to go pending, so 1 year is the wait time.

Something has to be done. There is no reason a NICS background check for an AR15 w/ a 16 inch barrel takes seconds and one for a 14.5 inch barrel takes a year.

What frustrates me the most is I am paying them a $200 tax for an ever slowing down service.

[ExecDirector]

It's not a NICS check. That is a fairly common misconception. NICS is but one database and an NFA check utilizes at least 5 via FBI. And about that $200... You are paying the same amount that was levied at the start of the NFA. It has never been adjusted over time. And there are orders of magnitude more folks applying for transfer. So in real terms, you are paying less for a service that ever more people want.

As for NFA Examiners, since the contractors and most of the folks at NFA branch did receive furlough instructions in previous shut down escapades, I can only assume that the same will hold true this time, if it happens. I expect even more slow downs everywhere if the budget crashes.

[jason8844]

It's not a NICS check. That is a fairly common misconception. NICS is but one database and an NFA check utilizes at least 5 via FBI. And about that $200... You are paying the same amount that was levied at the start of the NFA. It has never been adjusted over time. And there are orders of magnitude more folks applying for transfer. So in real terms, you are paying less for a service that ever more people want.


Your post reminds me of a quote by one of my conservative heroes of the 18th century, Edmund Burke. He stated "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

While I have no doubt your intentions are good, you seem to be one of too many NFA collectors that simply shrugs off the wait and thinks "Well, that is just the way it is." You seem to be defending the actions of the NFA Branch in this endeavor. While I agree with your historical facts about the $200 tax, let's not forget the whole purpose of that tax was to discourage citizens from even applying. Now that insidious misappropriation of government power has been supplanted by the CLEO sign off and the ever growing wait. As long as no one raises their voices, the people in charge realize that they have used deception to get you to believe that it is the new norm. They will keep adding to the wait until they encounter more resistance. By then it is too late, and once again the anti-gunners have advanced the ball down the proverbial gridiron. All we can do is accept this new paradigm. When will enough be enough? To many people in the NFA world are not speaking up and doing nothing as to not "rock the boat." This lack of action is what Edmund Burke was talking about in regards to letting evil win.

Every year our national budget grows, even with sequestration. Every year the redundant and every bloating government bureaucracies gain more staff, bigger budgets and more encroaching power.

Q: When the IRS has more returns to go through, what do they do? A: They hire more staff.
Q: When the DOJ has a bigger case load to go through, what do they do? A: They hire more staff.
Q: When the EPA has a rise in applications for drilling permits, what do they do? A: They hire more staff.
Q: When the DHS has a rise in applications for more immigration, what do they do? They hire more staff.

But then...

Q: When the NFA Branch has more applications to process, what do they do? A: They REDUCE staff, furlough workers, and add more burdensome steps to the application process.

One of these is not the like the others. Can you tell which?

Something is very wrong with this picture.

We would not accept unreasonable wait times for tax returns, marriage licenses, drivers licenses, SSI benefits, etc. For Pete's sake, we put man on the moon and the best we can do is a year wait to get approval to knock five inches off of a rifle barrel? I am not an unreasonable man and believe there is some legitimacy in the NFA system. I personally do not feel burdened by the fingerprints, passport photos, or the transfer tax. I am even ok with filing out forms for interstate travel of my NFA weapons. I am a law abiding citizen and do not want prohibited persons obtaining such weapons. I believe however that with my concessions of natural, God-given rights there should be in return a "reasonable" processing time on my applications. Heck, I am not asking for a month or two months. I am fine with 4 or 5. But 10 months? A year? How long will it take before more people stand up and say enough is enough?

Maybe you already have all your NFA toys and the wait times no longer affect you in any substantial way. I could understand your sentiment if that was the case. However, as a representative of an organization that represents people like myself I am very disheartened by your lack of concern. Even after the NFACTA's recent debacle with the ATF, I still considered joining and donating money. I am a member of the NRA, ASA and GOA. However, I am just not convinced that your organization really represents me and my concerns with the current NFA system.

I am not blaming you or your organization. Nor do I blame the examiners or contract labor at the NFA Branch. Everyone is just doing what they are told and no one wants to ruffle anyone's feathers. While nothing is being said and nothing is being done, the anti-gunners are quietly advancing their agenda and bringing to a screeching halt the entire NFA system.

[RenegadeConservative]

I believe however that with my concessions of natural, God-given rights there should be in return a "reasonable" processing time on my applications. Heck, I am not asking for a month or two months. I am fine with 4 or 5. But 10 months? A year? How long will it take before more people stand up and say enough is enough?

One of the problems is that the registry is filled with items that shouldn't even be regulated as NFA items in my opinion.

Why are suppressors, sawed off shotguns, short barreled rifles, and AOWs even on the NFA list? Because they are "more dangerous" than Title I firearms? Uhhhh...no. The deadliest mass shooting in the history of the United States was pulled off with a Glock 19 and a Walther P22 - weapons that can be obtained in the time that it takes to fill out a 4473 and produce a CWP and driver's license.

De-regulate these items and you would only be left with machine guns and destructive devices. Transferable machine guns are prohibitively expensive for most people and destructive devices are not all that common. Now, the wait time has been reduced to a reasonable period of time. Problem solved.


Maybe you already have all your NFA toys and the wait times no longer affect you in any substantial way. I could understand your sentiment if that was the case. However, as a representative of an organization that represents people like myself I am very disheartened by your lack of concern. Even after the NFACTA's recent debacle with the ATF, I still considered joining and donating money. I am a member of the NRA, ASA and GOA. However, I am just not convinced that your organization really represents me and my concerns with the current NFA system.

Other than people like us - the NFATCA has the most to lose in this fight. In the minds of many people, they are to blame for the recent ATF debacle. If things don't get straightened out, it is possible that NFATCA will go underwater. All that they have worked for will be for nothing. Therefore, this organization is going to fight like hell to keep that from happening. I became a financial supporter for this very reason even though I had reservations about doing so.


I am not blaming you or your organization. Nor do I blame the examiners or contract labor at the NFA Branch. Everyone is just doing what they are told and no one wants to ruffle anyone's feathers. While nothing is being said and nothing is being done, the anti-gunners are quietly advancing their agenda and bringing to a screeching halt the entire NFA system.

Quite true. This is the time to remain united. We can express our displeasure after the situation has been diffused.

[jason8844]

One of the problems is that the registry is filled with items that shouldn't even be regulated as NFA items in my opinion.

Why are suppressors, sawed off shotguns, short barreled rifles, and AOWs even on the NFA list? Because they are "more dangerous" than Title I firearms? Uhhhh...no. The deadliest mass shooting in the history of the United States was pulled off with a Glock 19 and a Walther P22 - weapons that can be obtained in the time that it takes to fill out a 4473 and produce a CWP and driver's license.

De-regulate these items and you would only be left with machine guns and destructive devices. Transferable machine guns are prohibitively expensive for most people and destructive devices are not all that common. Now, the wait time has been reduced to a reasonable period of time. Problem solved.


I agree, but we have to fight this one battle at a time. Getting those things off the registry would be great, but not politically possible in the near future. Getting wait times down is. We need a well thought out and goal oriented approach to this whole mess. For example I think we need to focus on moving fight in our direction a little at a time. I think we should work for these things in this order...

1. Reduce wait times
2. Fight for CLEO signature elimination
3. Fight for SBRs, SBRs and Silencers to be removed from the registry
4. Repeal of the Hughes Amendment
5. Repeal the NFA

We can not go for all or broke. We have to fight this like the anti-gunners do. One piece at a time.



Other than people like us - the NFATCA has the most to lose in this fight. In the minds of many people, they are to blame for the recent ATF debacle. If things don't get straightened out, it is possible that NFATCA will go underwater. All that they have worked for will be for nothing. Therefore, this organization is going to fight like hell to keep that from happening. I became a financial supporter for this very reason even though I had reservations about doing so.


I concur with your sentiment here. However, I am really not sure what the NFACTA really wants. Have they ever published a political platform or agenda that outlines their goals? The NRA, GOA and ASA all have.

[ExecDirector]

I hope to be able to detail the exact actions that the NFATCA will be bringing to bear in the next few days. In the mean time, please understand that my intent is not to be an apologist for ATF. Rather, I seek to bring facts to the discussion. A lot of folks make assumptions that do not hold up well when the light of scrutiny flips on. For instance, the NICS check thing.

[ddnc]

Something is very wrong with this picture.

We would not accept unreasonable wait times for tax returns, marriage licenses, drivers licenses, SSI benefits, etc. For Pete's sake, we put man on the moon and the best we can do is a year wait to get approval to knock five inches off of a rifle barrel? I am not an unreasonable man and believe there is some legitimacy in the NFA system. I personally do not feel burdened by the fingerprints, passport photos, or the transfer tax. I am even ok with filing out forms for interstate travel of my NFA weapons. I am a law abiding citizen and do not want prohibited persons obtaining such weapons. I believe however that with my concessions of natural, God-given rights there should be in return a "reasonable" processing time on my applications. Heck, I am not asking for a month or two months. I am fine with 4 or 5. But 10 months? A year? How long will it take before more people stand up and say enough is enough?

.

.

Approval for gun permits will be put on hold. That was announced. Here is the deal but you already probably know this: the current dicktatorship in control does not want firearms in US civilian hands. Plain and simple, of any kind. If you think anything else regardless of what they tell you, you are beyond help. The govt. with your tax dollars (including your $200) will arm drug cartels and terror cells but you my friend are not to be trusted with a bang stick. So in essence, yeah your application will be delayed. Jason you live in Texas and you may also already know this as well but us Texans got doubly screwed on NFA because Sara Jones the previous examiner for Texas has been promoted, and she was pretty quick and thorough. Her entire case load got transferred to some newbie and Texas now has the longest wait in the US. Coincidently, King barry/holder have a special disdain for Texas and the feeling is mutual so nothing surprises me from these commies anymore.
FYI removing 1-4 inches off a firearm makes it extremely dangerous, like bayonet lugs.

[jason8844]

Approval for gun permits will be put on hold. That was announced.

I am not surprised. As a conservative, I am glad the Republicans are holding their ground and the government shut down. What is another few weeks to my NFA applications? At this point, I am fine with it.


Here is the deal but you already probably know this: the current dicktatorship in control does not want firearms in US civilian hands. Plain and simple, of any kind. If you think anything else regardless of what they tell you, you are beyond help.

I am under no illusions and agree with you. They want what all authoritarians want... a monopoly on violence. After all, when they have all the guns, what are you going to do when they simply throw out the Constitution?


The govt. with your tax dollars (including your $200) will arm drug cartels and terror cells but you my friend are not to be trusted with a bang stick. So in essence, yeah your application will be delayed.

http://jasonblog.anvilgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/obamagun-and-obamaphone.jpg

As for losing Sara Jones, I only recently heard this and Jason Bowers is our new examiner. I heard Sara was great and in fact was my examiner on my first couple of Form 4s.

[ddnc]

Well, well! It seems ATF is really out to screw us now. Two of my stamps which were supposed to be approved last week and sent January 2013 will not be approved until sometime in the summer of 2014. Their stance is now 15 months from pending and all current pending/ 90 days until approval is a pile of dog sh**, as all current pendings have been invalidated. I anticipate them denying any current pending forms that are not Cleo sign offs and the 4, I E-formed 1 month ago which immediately went pending I honestly don't believe those will ever be approved, furthermore when the govt. shuts down in a couple months or so AGAIN, this BS. will all start over. Sorry, over 1 year to lick a frickin' stamp for which they cash over 1 year prior is totally unacceptable especially on multiple stamps on the same trust. SUCKO!

[jason8844]

Well, well! It seems ATF is really out to screw us now. Two of my stamps which were supposed to be approved last week and sent January 2013 will not be approved until sometime in the summer of 2014. Their stance is now 15 months from pending and all current pending/ 90 days until approval is a pile of dog sh**, as all current pendings have been invalidated. I anticipate them denying any current pending forms that are not Cleo sign offs and the 4, I E-formed 1 month ago which immediately went pending I honestly don't believe those will ever be approved, furthermore when the govt. shuts down in a couple months or so AGAIN, this BS. will all start over. Sorry, over 1 year to lick a frickin' stamp for which they cash over 1 year prior is totally unacceptable especially on multiple stamps on the same trust. SUCKO!

Before I can respond I have a two questions...

1. How did you come by this info that "all pendings have been invalidated"?

2. Is this for everyone, or just trusts?

[ddnc]

Before I can respond I have a two questions...

1. How did you come by this info that "all pendings have been invalidated"?
Was told so by Mary at (304)616-4500
2. Is this for everyone, or just trusts?
Don't know for sure but I would guess everyone. I am only concerned with Trusts as that is my situation furthermore they ask you "is this for a Trust or individual. Never did that before.

Since the Keynan lost on gun control publicly they will backdoor the implementation by making it such a PITA that it won't be worth the effort. The general gun owning public could care less about NFA anyways and if these last stamps ever get approved they are the last for me. Not worth my time any longer.

[jason8844]

Since the Keynan lost on gun control publicly they will backdoor the implementation by making it such a PITA that it won't be worth the effort. The general gun owning public could care less about NFA anyways and if these last stamps ever get approved they are the last for me. Not worth my time any longer.

I was only asking because I know there is a lot of hearsay on the internet and was curious if you heard it from the NFA Branch itself.

I am curious as to the trust/individual stuff myself. All my transfers and Form 1s are as individuals since my CLEO signs off on them. I currently have a few in the pending process and another to go out later this month for an HK 94 clone SBR. My 2nd question was kind of for the whole new trust regulation proposal being debated now. Since mine all have CLEO sign-offs, I was curious if mine were invalildated too like yours.

Thanks for the update.

This system is broken and no one will address it. I will be calling Sen. Cruz's office tomorrow.

[ddnc]

IIRC, there is no more second pending. I really didn't know when they started that crap anyway to be honest. I received 4 stamps in Jan 2013 that were submitted in Aug 2012. There was never any mention of second pending on any previous stamps including these 4. I then sent 2 more in Jan. 2013 (submitted) that initially went pending March 17, 2013 then "second, July 16, 2013. There were by NFA phone confirmation to be approved 1-2 weeks ago. Their SOP is currently to say " approval is 15 months from check cashed" and do not address the "pending" status. I just think they are preparing to make this an extremely long, tedious, convoluted, very drawn out process with the ultimate goal of discouraging civi ownership of NFA weps.

[jason8844]

IIRC, there is no more second pending. I really didn't know when they started that crap anyway to be honest. I received 4 stamps in Jan 2013 that were submitted in Aug 2012. There was never any mention of second pending on any previous stamps including these 4. I then sent 2 more in Jan. 2013 (submitted) that initially went pending March 17, 2013 then "second, July 16, 2013. There were by NFA phone confirmation to be approved 1-2 weeks ago. Their SOP is currently to say " approval is 15 months from check cashed" and do not address the "pending" status. I just think they are preparing to make this an extremely long, tedious, convoluted, very drawn out process with the ultimate goal of discouraging civi ownership of NFA weps.

Well, I will call the NFA Branch too tomorrow and see what they tell me. According to the data on NFA tracker, people who submitted paperwork in January are reporting that they are getting their stamps in now. Granted there is a lull due to the shutdown, but they are trickling in again. Both trusts and individuals are showing stamps coming in.

[jason8844]

I also never understood why anti-gunners hate the NFA so much. They get everything they want. They know they can not "ban" guns outright so what is the next best thing? Tax them, register them and force the owners to submit to draconian laws regarding storage and transportation of them. It is a liberal wet dream. You would think they would want more of it. :confused:

[ddnc]

Well, I will call the NFA Branch too tomorrow and see what they tell me. According to the data on NFA tracker, people who submitted paperwork in January are reporting that they are getting their stamps in now. Granted there is a lull due to the shutdown, but they are trickling in again. Both trusts and individuals are showing stamps coming in.
I would be really interested in the story you get.

[jason8844]

I would be really interested in the story you get.

I called today. They told me when my transfers went pending, but they said they could not estimate when they would get approved. This did surprise me, but did not confirm or deny a 15 month wait. So I did not get any information regarding our conversation here.

I hope someone with any inside knowledge will post. Maybe Mr. Folloder could shed some light on this as I know he personally knows people on the inside of the NFA Branch.

[RenegadeConservative]

At this point, I think I have a better chance of getting lucky with an porno actress than taking possession of my Sten Mk. II.

Thank you, NFA branch, for your ineptitude.

[jason8844]

At this point, I think I have a better chance of getting lucky with an porno actress than taking possession of my Sten Mk. II.

Thank you, NFA branch, for your ineptitude.

You are right and probably would have spent less money than you did on the MG. Money talks and with enough of it, I have no doubt you could find a porno actress who will be your "escort" for the evening. You will pay the fee and receive your "service" within a reasonable and predictable time frame.

With the NFA Branch, it is like having a high maintenance wife. She gets to drain you bank account with just a promise of future intimacy which may or may not occur in a "reasonable and predictable time frame". However, now that you are legally bound to her, the option of getting out is even less desirable. You are stuck in a no win situation where you survive on fantasy and hope alone.

[ddnc]

I called again today and spoke with "Vicky". She said the time frame for approval is 15 months from their receipt and all previous "pendings" are invalid as they have changed and will only provide when they got your forms. I mentioned I sent in several forms that they received in Jan 2013 and was told they were to be approved a few weeks ago and her response was that basically everything I was told was as good as anything the liar in chief says = worthless but it shouldn't take 15 months since it was already received.
Yeah like almost 11,.... ELEVEN... months already.
This system is as now as efficient as that joke of an abomination healthcare garbage.

[jason8844]

I called again today and spoke with "Vicky". She said the time frame for approval is 15 months from their receipt and all previous "pendings" are invalid as they have changed and will only provide when they got your forms. I mentioned I sent in several forms that they received in Jan 2013 and was told they were to be approved a few weeks ago and her response was that basically everything I was told was as good as anything the liar in chief says = worthless but it shouldn't take 15 months since it was already received.
Yeah like almost 11,.... ELEVEN... months already.
This system is as now as efficient as that joke of an abomination healthcare garbage.

I am not sure how you and I got such different answers. I did not ask who I was talking with, so I do not have a name.

We really need an insider to let us know what they know. I am not sure how they can "invalidate" pending applications. Was there an executive order? Does this come from the director of the ATF? A law that was passed by Congress?

[ddnc]

They always identify themselves when answering. "ATF , this is so and so". They are just no longer going to relate approval of stamps with pending status. Only your forms were received on such and such date and in 15 months will be approved. There has been no laws passed or anything like that but there does not need to be. They can do as they please and tough titties if you don't like it. The invalidation thing is just that. If before the shutdown they told you you would be approved today or whenever, it makes no difference at this juncture. That information and those dates are absolutely meaningless, invalidated. Be advised ATF has a new director as they have not had one for years and he is obama approved.
That should speak volumes.

[mbogo]

The system has been rejiggered to make it as onerous and vexatious as possible. Obama is anti-gun, and minions like B. Todd Jones is similarly disposed.

mbogo

[jason8844]

The system has been rejiggered to make it as onerous and vexatious as possible. Obama is anti-gun, and minions like B. Todd Jones is similarly disposed.

mbogo

I agree. What makes me mad is that the anti-gunners will not be honest. The NFA is gun control disguised as a "tax".

[ddnc]

Well it seems the new BS line is 9 months from receipt. For us Texans, we are getting preferentially screwed and on purpose I believe. Called again to hear the latest and was told 9 months and I replied, "well last week was 9.5 months so would you like to rephrase that"? The reply was, "It'll be approved this month" yeah right. I have seen many form 4s from other states that were mailed 1 month after mine was received and they have received their stamps. This is crap and it is on purpose.

[jason8844]

Well it seems the new BS line is 9 months from receipt. For us Texans, we are getting preferentially screwed and on purpose I believe. Called again to hear the latest and was told 9 months and I replied, "well last week was 9.5 months so would you like to rephrase that"? The reply was, "It'll be approved this month" yeah right. I have seen many form 4s from other states that were mailed 1 month after mine was received and they have received their stamps. This is crap and it is on purpose.

I do not think we are getting singled out, but I do think we got the short end of the stick. The two factors we face are..

1. Texas gun owners submit more Form 1s and Form 4s than many other states combined and we only have one examiner.
2. Sara Jones got promoted and Jason Bowers is not as fast as her.

I think as Mr. Bowers gets more used to the job he will speed up. I just hope he does not get burnt out looking at all those stacks of Forms. I can only imagine being an NFA examiner having to look at the boxes and boxes of backlogged applications and they just keep coming in. I kind of feel sorry for them.

[ddnc]

We'll see. I should have already received my paid for tax items twice. If not received by months end, as I was told, that'll be 3. The other 4 that have been pending/received/paid for , whatever since mid Sept. I half way plan on never seeing.

[jason8844]

I am trying to be optimistic. I am as frustrated as you though. I am paying an unconstitutional tax and complying with an often unenforced law. All I am asking for are reasonable processing times.

However this is why I spaced out my current applications. Once I start getting stamps back, they should keep rolling in every month. It will be like Christmas every 30 days!!

[jason8844]

We'll see. I should have already received my paid for tax items twice. If not received by months end, as I was told, that'll be 3. The other 4 that have been pending/received/paid for , whatever since mid Sept. I half way plan on never seeing.

After about 30 days, someone from Texas finally posted a stamp arrival with Jason Bowers signature on NFA tracker. It looks like Mr. Bowers is still working on forms that arrived to the NFA branch in January. Since the government shutdown Mr. Bowers has only moved up a couple of days in his applications. I am sad today. :-(

[ddnc]

IIRC, there is no more second pending. I really didn't know when they started that crap anyway to be honest. I received 4 stamps in Jan 2013 that were submitted in Aug 2012. There was never any mention of second pending on any previous stamps including these 4. I then sent 2 more in Jan. 2013 (submitted) that initially went pending March 17, 2013 then "second, July 16, 2013. There were by NFA phone confirmation to be approved 1-2 weeks ago. Their SOP is currently to say " approval is 15 months from check cashed" and do not address the "pending" status. I just think they are preparing to make this an extremely long, tedious, convoluted, very drawn out process with the ultimate goal of discouraging civi ownership of NFA weps.
I received a phone call this past weekend from a fellow NFA receipient stating he received his stamp for an item he sent in, in Jan. 2013. He was also kind enough to inform me that ATF had also sent him MY STAMP, one of 2 submitted in Jan. 2013. I ask if my other stamp was in there also, "no" he replied. I called NFA and both were approved Nov. 12. Both were mailed Jan 22, 2013, according to NFA received Feb. 6, 2013 and approved Nov. 12, 2013.
So 9 months, 6 days or 278 days. I have yet to receive these in hand to date. I also informed NFA they sent my stamp to the wrong address.
I understand ATF has now gone back to the "pending to approval" thing again and the 3 month e-form receipts that some were lucky enough to receive was only a system test and is not a timeline for e-forms. I wonder now or if ever, the 4 eforms I subbed in Sept. will come to fruitition.

[jason8844]

I received a phone call this past weekend from a fellow NFA receipient stating he received his stamp for an item he sent in, in Jan. 2013. He was also kind enough to inform me that ATF had also sent him MY STAMP, one of 2 submitted in Jan. 2013. I ask if my other stamp was in there also, "no" he replied. I called NFA and both were approved Nov. 12. Both were mailed Jan 22, 2013, according to NFA received Feb. 6, 2013 and approved Nov. 12, 2013.
So 9 months, 6 days or 278 days. I have yet to receive these in hand to date. I also informed NFA they sent my stamp to the wrong address.
I understand ATF has now gone back to the "pending to approval" thing again and the 3 month e-form receipts that some were lucky enough to receive was only a system test and is not a timeline for e-forms. I wonder now or if ever, the 4 eforms I subbed in Sept. will come to fruitition.

Haven't you heard? There is now a new system in place. If you want to get your NFA stamp back within the same decade you can do one of the following...

1. Make a big donation to Obama's political action fund.
2. Make a big donation to Eric Holder's legal defense fund.
3. Be a known Mexican cartel member.
4. Be a known Syrian rebel.

If you are not one of these, your stamp needs to be mishandled w/ extra scrutiny. After all, we do not want law abiding, tax paying Americans getting a hold of or making "weapons of war" with "high capacity ammunition feeding device magazine drum clips".

[ddnc]

Stamps in hand, 285 days. :mad:

[jason8844]

Stamps in hand, 285 days. :mad:

To put it in perspective, that is only 24,624,000 seconds.

[ExecDirector]

For another perspective... conception to birth is pretty much 266 days.

[jason8844]

For another perspective... conception to birth is pretty much 266 days.

Slight tangent, do you happen to know the average number of stamps an examiner approves on a daily basis?

[ExecDirector]

I used to. But the numbers have changed dramatically because of all of the new folks, folks moving to new gigs, reassignments, etc. An *average* number would not be too useful. I have requested the official YTD numbers on forms crunched by type. Should be interesting.

[ddnc]

For another perspective... conception to birth is pretty much 266 days.
I did not have to push these out of my body but I sure feel I got screwed waiting for them. Pre 2013 it was 90 days from mailing to receipt for me.
Sorry, couldn't pass that one up. :)

[ExecDirector]

Believe me, I was thinking it as I wrote it...

[jason8844]

Today is a big day in my NFA life. Today marks the 9 month anniversary of a set of Form 4s being sent to the NFA Branch for an SWR Octane 45HD. 9 months and no stamp yet. I am sad. I just want to follow the law, pay my tax and get my suppressor in a reasonable time frame. :-(

[jason8844]

Does anyone know what days in the next couple of weeks the NFA branch is open? Or am I kidding myself to think that it will be open at all like most government agencies? Should I just expect them to be back at work sometime in mid January?

[ExecDirector]

They are working regular hours. But they are buried. Volume is dramatically increasing as a result of the holidays and 41P.

[ddnc]

Today is a big day in my NFA life. Today marks the 9 month anniversary of a set of Form 4s being sent to the NFA Branch for an SWR Octane 45HD. 9 months and no stamp yet. I am sad. I just want to follow the law, pay my tax and get my suppressor in a reasonable time frame. :-(
I understand your frustration, believe me! Having said that I received 2 stamps (snail mail) in November that were sent in Jan. 2013 and in the past 10 days received 3 more via e-forms. The E-form thing is really beneficial and so far working well until the trust thing de-materializes. I have quite a few in process, attempting to get on this boat before it sails/sinks. The few fellows I have spoke with @ ATF dealing with the e-forms have been really great, apologetic and very helpful. I hope you get some relief soon.

[sillycon]

DDNC, what was your turn around on the eForms?

[jason8844]

I understand your frustration, believe me! Having said that I received 2 stamps (snail mail) in November that were sent in Jan. 2013 and in the past 10 days received 3 more via e-forms. The E-form thing is really beneficial and so far working well until the trust thing de-materializes. I have quite a few in process, attempting to get on this boat before it sails/sinks. The few fellows I have spoke with @ ATF dealing with the e-forms have been really great, apologetic and very helpful. I hope you get some relief soon.

Hahaha. While I appreciate you trying to make me feel better, I feel worse. On NFA tracker I am watching efiled forms coming back in 90 days, while my snail mail forms are looking like 300 days+. My forms are as individual so I can not efile.

Thanks for trying to make me feel better though. :-)

[ddnc]

DDNC, what was your turn around on the eForms?
1st one 90 days exactly, the other 2 , 92 days.

[ddnc]

Hahaha. While I appreciate you trying to make me feel better, I feel worse. On NFA tracker I am watching efiled forms coming back in 90 days, while my snail mail forms are looking like 300 days+. My forms are as individual so I can not efile.

Thanks for trying to make me feel better though. :-)
Ok man, here the deal................They just don't like you. :eek:
I think the F-4s are not clearing as quickly IIRC surely It can't'be much longer, (and stop calling me Shirley)

[jason8844]

Ok man, here the deal................They just don't like you. :eek:
I think the F-4s are not clearing as quickly IIRC surely It can't'be much longer, (and stop calling me Shirley)

Of course they do not like me. I have little doubt the Holder administration at the DOJ does NOT like...

1. People who are libertarian leaning conservatives
2. People who vote Republican
3. People who buy suppressors and build SBRs
4. People from Texas
5. People who are NRA members

I seem to fit all those categories. :-)

[ddnc]

Of course they do not like me. I have little doubt the Holder administration at the DOJ does NOT like...

1. People who are libertarian leaning conservatives
2. People who vote Republican
3. People who buy suppressors and build SBRs
4. People from Texas
5. People who are NRA members

I seem to fit all those categories. :-)
6. people who think for themselves
7. people that have a job
8. law abiding citizens.
9. etc., etc., yeah, you on da list.

[jason8844]

Today is a big day in my NFA life. Today marks the 9 month anniversary of a set of Form 4s being sent to the NFA Branch for an SWR Octane 45HD. 9 months and no stamp yet. I am sad. I just want to follow the law, pay my tax and get my suppressor in a reasonable time frame. :-(

Update -
9 1/2 months now and still no stamp. :(

NFA tracker is still showing stamps coming in from forms sent in 3 to 4 weeks before mine.

This sucks big time. I hate having spent so much money and almost a year later and have nothing to show for it. I really feel bad for the guys who bought MGs and spent way more than I did and do not have a stamp after this long of a wait.

[ExecDirector]

The wait is absolutely going to get longer. The last 90 days have seen an unprecedented deluge of new applications.

[jason8844]

The wait is absolutely going to get longer. The last 90 days have seen an unprecedented deluge of new applications.

You have to love the law of unintended consequences. By trying to make buying or making NFA items more onerous and troublesome, they ended up causing a rush that helped flood the market with even more NFA weapons.

Same thing with Feinstein. Her actions and rhetoric sold more AR-15s than ever. Because of her there are now a lot of people who may have owned 1 but now own 3. Or people who bought and put into storage 5 or 6 stripped lowers. These bozos just can not let a sleeping dog lie. They need to accept the fact the genie is out of the bottle and they can not put it back in. Guns of all types, barrel lengths, cosmetic feature etc. are here to stay.

[ExecDirector]

Give that man a Padron Anniversario (maduro figurado)...

[sillycon]

What man? What did I miss?

[jason8844]

What man? What did I miss?

He was talking to me.

[RenegadeConservative]

Talked with Nikki at the NFA Branch today.

My Form 4 was approved December 13, 2013.

I think a Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 might be in order later on.

[jason8844]

Talked with Nikki at the NFA Branch today.

My Form 4 was approved December 13, 2013.

I think a Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 might be in order later on.

Congrats!

It was approved on the 13th and you have not received it in the mail yet? That was almost a month ago.

When did you submit your forms?

[sillycon]

It was around Christmas time so all bets are off. Between ATF folks having time off, and the post office who knows when that will show up. Heck -- for Christmas of 2011 my family in VA mailed us (in FL) a package around the 15th of December via 2-day priority mail and it showed up the first week of March 2012!

[RenegadeConservative]

Congrats!

It was approved on the 13th and you have not received it in the mail yet? That was almost a month ago.

When did you submit your forms?

Mailed on February 25th. Received March 4th. Pending April 23rd. Second pending September 5th. Approved December 13th.

Becoming an uncle took less time. :D

[jason8844]

Mailed on February 25th. Received March 4th. Pending April 23rd. Second pending September 5th. Approved December 13th.

Becoming an uncle took less time. :D

Wow. I know things get crazy there at the NFA Branch, but that is unacceptable. Our government takes less time to screen agents to protect the President and give people super secret clearances. There just has to be a better way than this system.

[sillycon]

Wow. I know things get crazy there at the NFA Branch, but that is unacceptable. Our government takes less time to screen agents to protect the President and give people super secret clearances. There just has to be a better way than this system.

Uh, yea. Repeal of the NFA and the Hughes amendment.

Fingers crossed I see one of those happen in my lifetime. I won't hold my breath, however.

Also, what ever became of the challenges to the Montana law regarding firearms not a part of interstate commerce?

[jason8844]

Uh, yea. Repeal of the NFA and the Hughes amendment.

Fingers crossed I see one of those happen in my lifetime. I won't hold my breath, however.


Well, I agree that nether will happen in our lifetime. However, I think there are two things that we can do to help speed up the system. As a self employed person who works 12 to 14 hours, sometimes 6 or 7 days a week, I am always thinking about cost savings and efficiency in my work. Of course, even though I hold a doctorate degree in my field, I doubt I am intelligent enough to think like an advanced government bureaucrat. But here are my ideas...

1. Create a fast pass or pre-check system like the TSA has done for frequent flyers.

As someone who files his NFA forms as an individual, it is stupid that I have to turn in so many finger print cards and passport photos. The way I look and my fingerprints do not change. Why do they have to run them each time I apply to build an SBR or transfer a suppressor? They already have me on file and know I already am in possession of NFA items. Can't they just run my data that is already in the system and verify my eligibility? The redundancy of running an extensive background check for EVERY application, even when they are only a month apart is wasteful and time consuming.

2. When approving a person/trust for a Form 1 or 4, the examiner should look up and approve all other pending applications for the person/trust at the same time.

It is stupid to waste an examiners time reviewing all the paperwork for a transfer, only to do it all again a couple of weeks later. It is not like the information on the form will change. Just approve them all at the same time that have proceeded past a certain point in the process. This would take them out of the queue and remove many applications and speed up the process.

Well, that's it. I would like to think in a world where all of our emails, phone calls and texts can be intercepted by computers in our government, they could use computers to aid in this process and be able to look up info quicker and create a faster process.

Oh well. What do I know?

[jason8844]

Also, what ever became of the challenges to the Montana law regarding firearms not a part of interstate commerce?


I think three things are in play here...

1. No one wants to be the guinea pig and build a machine gun within Montana and risk becoming a felon and all that comes along with it.

2. Unless you can prove that EVERY part and all the metal/wood/polymer that went into the firearm was not produced, created, built, machined or mined in another state, the Feds will find a way to bring it into the fold of interstate commerce.

3. Wickard v. Filburn - SCOTUS case and the ruling on what is defined as interstate commerce.

[ddnc]

Well, I agree that nether will happen in our lifetime. However, I think there are two things that we can do to help speed up the system. As a self employed person who works 12 to 14 hours, sometimes 6 or 7 days a week, I am always thinking about cost savings and efficiency in my work. Of course, even though I hold a doctorate degree in my field, I doubt I am intelligent enough to think like an advanced government bureaucrat. But here are my ideas...

1. Create a fast pass or pre-check system like the TSA has done for frequent flyers.

As someone who files his NFA forms as an individual, it is stupid that I have to turn in so many finger print cards and passport photos. The way I look and my fingerprints do not change. Why do they have to run them each time I apply to build an SBR or transfer a suppressor? They already have me on file and know I already am in possession of NFA items. Can't they just run my data that is already in the system and verify my eligibility? The redundancy of running an extensive background check for EVERY application, even when they are only a month apart is wasteful and time consuming.

2. When approving a person/trust for a Form 1 or 4, the examiner should look up and approve all other pending applications for the person/trust at the same time.

It is stupid to waste an examiners time reviewing all the paperwork for a transfer, only to do it all again a couple of weeks later. It is not like the information on the form will change. Just approve them all at the same time that have proceeded past a certain point in the process. This would take them out of the queue and remove many applications and speed up the process.

Well, that's it. I would like to think in a world where all of our emails, phone calls and texts can be intercepted by computers in our government, they could use computers to aid in this process and be able to look up info quicker and create a faster process.

Oh well. What do I know?
Your suggestions are all good and well. My profession also demands precision and efficiency and a screw up on my end could result in grevious morbidity and or mortality. Your interest in a specific weapon that only a minute portion of the population possess or for that fact, even think you could have is of zero interest to them. The current regime prefer you own NOTHING that remotely resembles a firearm let alone a "machinegun/suppressor/SBR". Thusly you want to play, enough discouragement may change your mind. The criminal obtains his illegal weapon whenever he pleases and NFA he simply laughs off. It is similar to CCW. Remember when the retards claimed "blood will flow in the streets" if CCW was allowed. Still waiting for that to happen. CCW holders are not criminals and really pretty stable folks plus, no criminal records.
The point is: You're right, they already have all the info they need on you and it is basically a redundancy and like anything govt. related it's a cluster****.

[ExecDirector]

Well, I agree that nether will happen in our lifetime. However, I think there are two things that we can do to help speed up the system. As a self employed person who works 12 to 14 hours, sometimes 6 or 7 days a week, I am always thinking about cost savings and efficiency in my work. Of course, even though I hold a doctorate degree in my field, I doubt I am intelligent enough to think like an advanced government bureaucrat. But here are my ideas...

1. Create a fast pass or pre-check system like the TSA has done for frequent flyers.

As someone who files his NFA forms as an individual, it is stupid that I have to turn in so many finger print cards and passport photos. The way I look and my fingerprints do not change. Why do they have to run them each time I apply to build an SBR or transfer a suppressor? They already have me on file and know I already am in possession of NFA items. Can't they just run my data that is already in the system and verify my eligibility? The redundancy of running an extensive background check for EVERY application, even when they are only a month apart is wasteful and time consuming.

Will not work. The point of doing the check is to make certain that you are not / have not become a prohibited person. A lot can and does change between the last time you filed and now. The current law requires that ATF makes sure each and every time. And while they do indeed have you on file already, they want to make sure that it is actually you filling out the application/tax return.

It does seem wasteful and time consuming. That is the very definition of government...

2. When approving a person/trust for a Form 1 or 4, the examiner should look up and approve all other pending applications for the person/trust at the same time.

It is stupid to waste an examiners time reviewing all the paperwork for a transfer, only to do it all again a couple of weeks later. It is not like the information on the form will change. Just approve them all at the same time that have proceeded past a certain point in the process. This would take them out of the queue and remove many applications and speed up the process.

And the person who filed his application maybe months before you gets pushed back because you have a
gun problem?" <ggg>

Well, that's it. I would like to think in a world where all of our emails, phone calls and texts can be intercepted by computers in our government, they could use computers to aid in this process and be able to look up info quicker and create a faster process.

Oh well. What do I know?

They can and do use computers. And their throughput has doubled and in some cases tripled since just 5 years ago. That said we have also ramped up their volume by orders of magnitude in the same time frame.

[jason8844]

What "gun problem"? I can stop anytime I want. In fact my next gun purchase, suppressor transfer and SBR build will be my last. I am kicking the habit. ;-)

[sillycon]

I think Jasons point with #2 was that the person in line behind wouldn't be appreciably delayed, but in fact might get approved SOONER. If I have 3 applications in queue, and they were grouped together and approved at the same time then everyone behind me would get approved faster vs. having to wait through me getting three separate full-blown background checks.

Of course, this idea sidesteps the issue of having to do a "background check" on each of the transferred ITEMS to ensure they're all legal as well.

Realistically, the biggest improvement that think we could hope to gain in the process is probably the de-listing of suppressors from the NFA as well as perhaps SBR's and SBS's. Short-barrel items are especially reasonable when you consider that you can walk into a store and walk out with a .308win or 410ga handgun in under an hour but can't get a 25" long .308 rifle or 17" barrel 410ga shotgun without a ~1yr wait.

[jason8844]

I think Jasons point with #2 was that the person in line behind wouldn't be appreciably delayed, but in fact might get approved SOONER. If I have 3 applications in queue, and they were grouped together and approved at the same time then everyone behind me would get approved faster vs. having to wait through me getting three separate full-blown background checks.


That's what I meant.


Sillycon, as for removing items from the NFA, are you writing your Reps and Senators. I know I have. I am sure they are tired of me calling every month about it. However, I feel like I am talking to a brick wall. I only wish I knew someone personally in Ted Cruz's office to actually be able to seriously be able to communicate this to them and see if we can get it added to a bill as an amendment or at least get hearings on it. I am just one person with no power though.

[ExecDirector]

The idea of delisting certain items from the NFA is formidable. But it also must be taken in context. It would be great if the NFA did not exist. And if it must exist, it would be better if its scope was limited. Removing suppressors and short barreled long arms from the purview is a reasonable scenario. But it is not reasonable to believe that *any* initiative that *expands* gun rights in this current federal climate would have a chance. While it is possible for a bill to make it through the House, making it through the Senate (right now) is pretty much a non-starter. But even if there were some miraculous event that would allow it to sneak through, do you think it could overcome a White House veto?

This idea of delisting has merit. But there really is only going to be enough "ammo" to fire this shot once. Best to do it when the environment provides the greatest chance of success. Win the Senate, put somebody who's not a socialist in the White House and then head for daylight...

[darrylta]

It's a breath of fresh air to hear someone tell it like it is, the Democrat Party has morphed into the Socialist Party,
I've been referring to them as the Socialist Party for months. If everyone would do it, it would shine some light them for the uninformed.
-Darryl

[jason8844]

It's a breath of fresh air to hear someone tell it like it is, the Democrat Party has morphed into the Socialist Party,
I've been referring to them as the Socialist Party for months. If everyone would do it, it would shine some light them for the uninformed.
-Darryl

This says it all...

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism,’ they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

-Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

[ddnc]

It's a breath of fresh air to hear someone tell it like it is, the Democrat Party has morphed into the Socialist Party,
I've been referring to them as the Socialist Party for months. If everyone would do it, it would shine some light them for the uninformed.
-Darryl
Unfortunately so has 98% of the republican party. Almost ALL politicians are in place to:
1. Maintain the status quo.
2. Keep their jobs as long as possible by feeding the public a load of BS.
3. Create problems and then legislate for the problems they created that were not present beforehand.
The current governmental system HAS TO CHANGE or this country is history. It was never intended to be corrupted as badly as is it today. Term limits on all offices and once an office held can NEVER hold public office again.

[sillycon]

I would NEVER want to try a push for delisting with the current political environment. There's a lot of good progress being made in Chicago and Detroit through the courts and LEO's, and that needs time to shake out. McCarthy is retiring soon, and Feinstein can't have too many more years above ground. The political climate is definitely making it's way towards the positive side for us, but it's going to take a while still. The next election cycle will give us a better view into the state of things, but it looks positive from my perspective.

We must, however, be ever-watchful for another FOPA '86.

[jason8844]

I would NEVER want to try a push for delisting with the current political environment. There's a lot of good progress being made in Chicago and Detroit through the courts and LEO's, and that needs time to shake out. McCarthy is retiring soon, and Feinstein can't have too many more years above ground. The political climate is definitely making it's way towards the positive side for us, but it's going to take a while still. The next election cycle will give us a better view into the state of things, but it looks positive from my perspective.

We must, however, be ever-watchful for another FOPA '86.

A couple of points...

1. Yes some anti-gunners are retiring or are on death's doorsteps, however there will be plenty of anti-gunners right behind them to fill their places. Progressives look at things generationally. They know they will not be able to advance the ball down the court so fast, but in 100 years they can achieve victory. They think in the long term.

2. While we may have had some minor victories in the courts, the judges always cite loopholes or other ways around their ruling to aid the anti-gunners. Heck, anti-gunners use Scalia's own opinion against us where he said the 2nd amendment does not protect dangerous or unusual weapons. So logically, anti-gunners then try and equate the AR-15 with nuclear weapons and toxic gas canisters and use his words to ban weapons in "common use".

3. As for something like the '86 FOPA, it is only a matter of time. I fear the demographics and political landscape of this nation is turning to one where there are more people with their hand out trying to get government entitlements that those of us who are producers can not pay for it all. This spells doom for the conservative or Republican party. I fear this nation with be a single party state in less than 20 years. Our fundamental rights should not be at stake EVERY election, but they are. If the Democrats take the House and hold the Senate, do you think they will waste the opportunity again to pass massive amounts of gun control legislation? Of course not.

I think we live in dark times. As Mark Levin says "The Constitution is not up for election". However, I think leftist politicians do.

[jason8844]

Getting back to the topic at hand. According to my calendar, it has been 300 days since I mailed in my completed Form 4s. So I called today and found out I am still pending. =(

What is even more upsetting is that I bought the suppressor in question on Feb. 14th 2013. So it is also 11 months since I parted with my money for an object I have yet to see, touch or use.

[jason8844]

311 days and counting. I called the NFA Branch on Friday and I am still pending even though there are other people on NFA Tracker posting that they are receiving their stamps that were approved a couple of weeks ago and according to their check cashing date, they sent in their forms after I did. My application is not in problem status. The nice gentleman on the phone politely told me that my application should be approved by the END OF NEXT MONTH! AHH!!! All I could do was thank him for his time and hang up. I am about to pull my hair out (what little I have left). The end of next month will be a few days shy of a year. After this one, I have 5 more forms in the works. I am only 33 and I just want to get to enjoy my NFA toys before I collect Social Security! (sorry for the hyperbole)

[jason8844]

I never thought this day would come. I called the NFA Branch today and I was approved this morning. Now my dealer is telling me it is taking them 2 or 3 weeks to mail them out. At least my biggest wait is over. Now on to my next 4 Forms...

[darrylta]

311 days and counting. I called the NFA Branch on Friday and I am still pending even though there are other people on NFA Tracker posting that they are receiving their stamps that were approved a couple of weeks ago and according to their check cashing date, they sent in their forms after I did. My application is not in problem status. The nice gentleman on the phone politely told me that my application should be approved by the END OF NEXT MONTH! AHH!!! All I could do was thank him for his time and hang up. I am about to pull my hair out (what little I have left). The end of next month will be a few days shy of a year. After this one, I have 5 more forms in the works. I am only 33 and I just want to get to enjoy my NFA toys before I collect Social Security! (sorry for the hyperbole)




Social Unsecurity......By the time your eligible to cash in on the biggest Ponzi scheme this world has ever seen, the scheme will be a distant memory. I'm sixty and I'm not planning
to get anything from it...you know my lock box.
-Darryl

[jason8844]

Social Unsecurity......By the time your eligible to cash in on the biggest Ponzi scheme this world has ever seen, the scheme will be a distant memory. I'm sixty and I'm not planning
to get anything from it...you know my lock box.
-Darryl

Me either. I was just using it for an extreme example. However, with the volatility in stocks and bonds, and the virtual bankruptcy of SSI, guns look like a good investment that will at least hold value. LOL

[sillycon]

Me either. I was just using it for an extreme example. However, with the volatility in stocks and bonds, and the virtual bankruptcy of SSI, guns look like a good investment that will at least hold value. LOL

I'm done investing in guns. I now invest in ammo. ;)

[ExecDirector]

ha! I've been trying to explain to folks the concept of arbitrage for ammunition. There's money to be made on both sides of the cycle if you remain disciplined.

[sillycon]

Oh, no, I'm a "buy and hold" kinda guy. Especially these days.

[ExecDirector]

Back on subject... I am extremely dubious of ATF's publication of average processing times. I just got a Form 4 back for a customer. Submitted 4/3/13, approved on 2/10/14, mailed on 2/12/14, received on 2/20/14. That's a bit more than a year, folks...

[jason8844]

Back on subject... I am extremely dubious of ATF's publication of average processing times. I just got a Form 4 back for a customer. Submitted 4/3/13, approved on 2/10/14, mailed on 2/12/14, received on 2/20/14. That's a bit more than a year, folks...

Does the ATF have an end game or goal they would like to get processing times down too? If money and staffing were not an issue, would they really want to lower wait times or do the powers above them like and want the longest wait times the market can bear on purpose?

[ExecDirector]

Impossible to answer. At one point, under the leadership of then NFA Branch Chief Ken Houchens, the goal was to drive *down* the wait times and speed up processing. That was before the suppressor revolution commenced, though. And while the number of forms processed per processor has absolutely increased, the sheer volume of forms has gone up geometrically. eForms was designed to help with that work load, but was delivered in a form hardly suitable for the volume at hand.

[sillycon]

I'm still at a loss as to how eforms were supposed to help with the workload.

Is/was the thought that by eforming F1's and F3's, there would be more bandwidth to manually process the F4's (since F4's often require prints/photos/etc they would almost never be viable via eform so far as I understand it)?

[ExecDirector]

It's a whole host of forms, not just 1's and 3's. 6's, 4's (for trust/corp), 5's, 2's, etc. Since almost all the data is pulled from the actual NFRTR system, the error rate drops dramatically because it is so difficult to populate with wrong data. That is HUGE. But what was not anticipated was the current and increasing volume.

[sillycon]

How could an F4 for a trust be submitted electronically when it requires additional paperwork (the trust documentation)?

A corporation I could perhaps see, but I thought those also required the articles of incorporation and such.

[Patrick]

The trust is sent as a .pdf

[sillycon]

Ah, I had apparently been misguided regarding eForms as my impression was that only forms which require NO additional documentation could be submitted that way.

Thanks for the clarification!

[jason8844]

Hey Everyone,
I have noticed in the past month that the places that post updates on the wait times of various NFA forms (NFA tracker, Silencer shop etc.) are showing a very interesting trend. It appears that since the recent announcement from the ATF about new hires and working 7 days a week, the wait times are plummeting back to earth... well, for everyone but one kind of submission. While the wait times on paper form 1s and 4s for trusts and LLC/corps are being reduced, the paper forms by individuals seem to be stagnant. Most reports show that the trusts are getting approved 2 and even 3 months faster than the individuals. Does anyone know why there is such a large discrepancy?

[gunsubber]

Well you see, the problem is ATF/DOJ isn't being transparent, forthcoming, or candid with the industry they serve and the citizens they serve. That, or the organizations and corporations (eg. NFATCA, NRA, ASA, AAC, GEM-TECH, etc...) that have access to a dialog with ATF are not sharing that information. This would never be the case for a proposed rule by the FDA (there'd be tons of dialog w/ pharma/insurers), the FAA (dialog with airlines), the FCC (dialog with broadcasters, cable companies)... But yet for some reason, we're are still sitting here with zero guidance on what is likely to happen, when, in what form, etc... It's unbelievable. The implementation and form of the final rule has the ability to shutter hundreds of businesses, cost thousands of livelihoods, and kill an entire vibrantly growing sector of industry... yet radio silence from remains from all parties.

ETA: the point is we may never know why there's such a discrepancy between individual/trust but what if they're trying to clear out as many trust submissions as possible leading up to an unaltered final implementation of 41P. They/someone should at least communicate this to the industry/citizens. Makes me sick.

[ExecDirector]

Sadly, they are not having a candid dialog with us (NFATCA) or any other organization that I am aware of. We used to have a congenial relationship with ATF. That ended with the current administration. There is no current transparency.

[jason8844]

ExecDirector and GunSubber,
Thanks for your replies. However, I know the whole trust issue is in limbo, what I was talking about is the individual applications. It just seems they have put the breaks on those applications and stated processing the trust/LLC stuff exclusively. If there is some internal procedural change regarding the individual forms, I would like to know. I do all my form 1 & 4 applications as an individual and since I pay the same tax as the trusts, I think I deserve the same processing times. It is not right to make us wait 9 or 10 months when the trusts are getting back in 6 or 7.

[ExecDirector]

As far as I know they are still processing individual applications. I have received several approved Form 4's for my customers... There is some procedural time savings involved in processing trust/corp versus individual (no need to validate CLEO, no FBI background check). We shall see if the "all hands on deck" plus the extra 15 new bodies will have an effect.

[RenegadeConservative]

Are wait times really going down though?

I purchased an M2 Carbine from Ruben Mendiola when the E-Form system was still functional (early March) and haven't heard anything as to its status. I had heard from various sources that Ruben's Form 3s had a very fast turn around time.

I was hoping to get the Form 4 in before June 1st just in case these clowns go forward with ATF41P. Might not happen at this point.